Lucas Foust:
[inaudible 00:00:02] All right. Hey, Rick. Thanks for joining us. We really appreciate it. This is Lucas Foust here with Rick. Say your last name for me, if you would, Rick.
Rick Hilles:
My last name is Hilles. I'm glad to be here.
Lucas Foust:
Great. Thanks, Rick. Thanks for coming. We typically interview someone, Rick, every month, for our business of the month, but this is... It's a business slash charity. It's kind of in the middle somewhere. You guys operate a business, but it's for the greater good of the community, primarily. That sounds... That's great.
Rick Hilles:
That's totally correct. And actually, the short hand version of that is called a social enterprise. It's a business that tries to sustain itself in the normal private sector fashion, but is focused on a social problem. So.
Lucas Foust:
Well, that's great. We'll get to that in just a second. I want to learn a little bit about you first, and then we'll talk about the Fork & Spoon in general. Rick, I ask every single person the same question, every time. Whether it's a focus group or a trial or whatever I do, I ask them this question. Setting your faith and your family, just setting those aside, Rick, what's the passion in your life? What gets you out of bed in the morning?
Rick Hilles:
Well, in the summertime, mountain biking is my thing. I do as much of it as I can, and it's part of the reason why I moved to Bozeman, because of the great opportunities to do that here. And the other part of moving to Bozeman was that there's a ski resort nearby, and snowboarding's my winter activity. So, between those two things, those kind of keep me busy or keep me busy and getting out of bed, as you say, day to day, and some days those are early to make that happen.
Lucas Foust:
Well, good. [crosstalk 00:01:39].
Rick Hilles:
I also love traveling and exploring other cultures and that sort of stuff. I really love doing that.
Lucas Foust:
Where'd you grow up learning to mountain bike?
Rick Hilles:
Well, I grew up in the Pennsylvania area and outside of Philadelphia, but as a kid, mountain biking wasn't as much of a thing back then. Maybe I'm older than you think, but it's a lot more of a thing now. As a chef who travels quite a bit, we ended up living in a lot of different areas, and I really got into it when I was living in Idaho most recently, before we moved to Bozeman.
Lucas Foust:
Where were you in Idaho before you moved to Bozeman?
Rick Hilles:
In Sun Valley. We lived in Sun Valley, Idaho. I just started raising a small family there.
Lucas Foust:
Oh, great. Good enough. And how long have you been at Bozeman?
Rick Hilles:
Oh, we're on five years now.
Lucas Foust:
Oh, good. Good. You blink your eyes and that five years rips by, I'm sure.
Rick Hilles:
It really does. Yeah.
Lucas Foust:
So you mentioned you're a chef. Where did you get your passion for cooking? Where did that come from?
Rick Hilles:
Well, that came from my family. My mom was always a real avid cook, and I spent a lot of time sitting on the counter, at the kitchen table and learned a lot of things from her. I didn't follow it as my career choice. I got into business administration and finance and eventually information technology. That first internet boom that happened swept me away. But after a while, I realized it wasn't really what I wanted to do. Then I went back to culinary school and moved to France and did that. Then came back to the United States and started working as a chef for the last 18 years.
Lucas Foust:
Well, tell us a little bit about your... Did you go to France for your culinary school, or was that here in the States and you went there? How did that work?
Rick Hilles:
No. I wanted to go. I already had a degree, and I'd been in the workforce a while, and so I needed to get a jump start on some of the younger kids who were already in the industry. And so I thought, "Where's a good place to do that?" So, I wanted a kind of immersion experience. And so I went to the Cordon Bleu in Paris, the same place Julia Child went, and it was a great way to learn techniques from the ground up, from the people that practically invented them, a lot of it. So, that's how I did that.
Lucas Foust:
Well, how was the language barrier to deal with? Did you just take your classes in French?
Rick Hilles:
Yeah. The classes were in French, and the first... Just say the first few months of the coursework, they had a translator who would explain what was going on or what the chefs were saying, but you were expected to pick it up and to learn. So I went to... I forget what the name of the school is that they have in France, where ex-pats can go and learn French and try to get a handle on the language. So I was doing that at the same time.
Lucas Foust:
Oh, no kidding. Did you continue your French skills afterward? Did you learn to speak a little French? [inaudible 00:04:19]
Rick Hilles:
I'm sorry, you broke up a little bit there, but after France, I didn't really get a chance to use it very much because... Well, I had intended to stay in France for culinary work. I was working at a restaurant, but I wasn't legally able to work there. And so I kept trying to work there, work there, and I just couldn't. Because of their visa process, it was always a challenge. So eventually, I just moved back to the United States, and I really haven't used it much since then, except for an occasional trip here and there.
Lucas Foust:
Oh, that's great. And you mentioned you like to travel. Where's your favorite place to travel, Rick?
Rick Hilles:
Well, I really love Latin America. I've been to Costa Rica and Belize and Mexico, and I just want to keep going further and further south, it seems. We were trying to get to Cuba this year. It was going to be my... Because I lived in Spain for a year. Another just divergence. I've lived in Spain for a year and I lived in Mexico for about six months, at other times in my life. And so, Spanish is really my language, if it's not English. But anyway, I really wanted to go to Cuba and see everything that was going on there. We were bringing the kids and everything, but the pandemic shut it all down this year.
Lucas Foust:
Unfortunately, it has for an awful lot of people, I would imagine. Before, Rick, you described the type of business you are, that has a social endeavor. What phrase did you use to describe that?
Rick Hilles:
I used the word social enterprise.
Lucas Foust:
Social enterprise. Tell me a little bit about what a social enterprise is, if you would. Tell us about that, and how this program started as a social enterprise.
Rick Hilles:
So, essentially a social enterprise is like a private sector business that's really focused on dealing with a social community problem. And it can be at a very local level or it could be at a very broad scale level. So for example, a big one that people might know about is Toms shoes. So, for every pair of shoes that they sell, they give a pair of shoes to someone in need, usually some place in another country, typically is how it works. So, in our case, what we're trying to do is deal with the social problem that we have here in Bozeman and exists really everywhere, which is hunger. So we're trying to find a way to alleviate hunger, but do it in such a way that we have a business operation that can sustain itself, so that we're not in dependency on... So we have the community trying to support the individuals, but we don't need the community to support us.
Rick Hilles:
We want to be able to do we do, but we want to be able to do that independently eventually. And so, through operations like a for-profit catering business or by selling products in the private market or opening a food truck, which is what we're working on right now, these are all ventures that generate profits for us, that then can pay for the social aspect of it, which are free meals for people who can't afford them. And if we do that, we don't have to go to the community and say, "Hey, can you give us money?" all the time.
Lucas Foust:
So your ultimate objective is not to be a burden on the general taxpayer. Your objective is run a business, and then spin it off as best you can and help deal with a social issue. How long have you done that here in Bozeman?
Rick Hilles:
Well, let's see. I moved to Bozeman in... Well, let's see. I guess it would be four years ago. I forget exactly what year that I guess, 2012. No, that doesn't make sense. Well, it was about four years ago.
Lucas Foust:
Sure.
Rick Hilles:
Four or five years ago, and I opened Saffron Table with Andleeb Dawood, who was the owner of that restaurant. So that's kind of what got me here. But after... I had two small kids. They're still pretty little, but they were two and three at the time. And the chef's life wasn't really working out with raising the family. So I was looking for a different kind of opportunity, and there was one at the HRDC. It was the community cafe back then. And it was much more a social service soup kitchen kind of environment, but there was a vision to take it in a different direction and actually make it something more mainstream and get it to be more self-sustaining. And I've been doing that for the last four years here in Bozeman, is moving the operation from that point and still trying to get it to a point where it can sustain itself. We're not there yet, but-
Lucas Foust:
And so, you're still affiliated with the HRDC, is that right?
Rick Hilles:
Yeah. The Fork & Spoon is still a program of the HRDC. It's part of the food nutrition programs. And so it's just like it's a brother or sister of the food bank, of the warming center, of the housing departments and all that. We're just another department within the HRDC structure, but we're trying to learn how to operate and create businesses within the company that are more self-sustaining and less dependent on going to the community for pure donations. Do you see what I mean?
Lucas Foust:
Absolutely. How have things changed over the past... Since you started even, a couple of years ago?
Rick Hilles:
The change from going from the community cafe to the Fork & Spoon was a rebranding, remarketing, kind of a redevelopment of the concept, which had proven to work very well and it still is needed in the community. But we wanted to make it more dignified, more respectful to the people who really need it, and make it more accessible and open to people who don't really need it, but want to support it by visiting the restaurant, spending their money they're donating. So, it was in a process of transformation at that time. And then since then, we've just continued to try to make the services as available as we can. And then adding other things like our catering business and the food truck and product development, where we can sell pies, or we can provide food to the senior center or the warming center itself, and be a supplier to some of the other programs in a way.
Lucas Foust:
So let me [crosstalk 00:10:12] ask you this. If a family wants to have your organization cater it, or a group or business or whatever, how do they go about doing that?
Rick Hilles:
They just go to the forkandspoonbozeman.org website, and they can click on the catering link, and then it'll bring them to a webpage that'll give them the menus that are available, how to get in contact with, things like that.
Lucas Foust:
How, and we'll get into a little bit more in depth... Well, you also have the food truck. Describe the food truck a little bit. Tell us a bit about that.
Rick Hilles:
The food truck's a new project right now. In fact, we're in the development process of it. It's getting built out, but basically the idea was, with the pandemic, we realized that it's a lot harder to reach some parts of the community. And when I say community, I mean, Belgrade, Manhattan, Livingston. There's other places outside of Bozeman Central, even just as far as Four Corners, that some people can't get into the restaurant. And with the restaurant being limited to take out only now, with the pandemic, we saw an opportunity that, "Hey, maybe we should try to expand our reach a little bit, implement the same model, pay what you can at times. At times we'll maybe we'll park at one of the local businesses and do not pay what you can, or cater out of it and find a way it'll be a self-sustaining business operation too." But that's what the food trucks' about. It is going to be called the Spork.
Lucas Foust:
The Spork. Great.
Rick Hilles:
Yeah.
Lucas Foust:
That's just great. So let me add, how did you get this? Why are you into this business, Rick? I mean, how did you go from working as a chef? You're in Sun Valley. When in Sun Valley, were you with a similar organization in Sun Valley or with the restaurant there?
Rick Hilles:
No, not at all. I've worked at an Asian bistro down in Sun Valley. How I kind of got into was, it more chose me, really, I kind of say to people, than anything else, because when I... After opening Saffron Table, that was a huge drain as far as... I'd never opened a restaurant before and had to get it off the ground and sustainable, and that's an investment in your time and in your energy. That is intense. And I realized at that point in time, I wanted something different that will allow me to have more family time and more personal time. My balance was getting completely out of whack there. I was spending all the time in the restaurant. So, I saw this as an opportunity to kind of take a break and help develop this other idea.
Rick Hilles:
But once I kind of got into it and I started feeling what it was like to cook for people and provide things for people on a basis of their need and not on their desire. So, like when you go to a restaurant, that's a discretionary expenditure. When you come to Fork & Spoon, if you're a person who needs it, that's not as discretionary for you. And so the purpose of the cooking became more about sustaining people and helping people than it was about impressing people with my culinary skills and ideas and imagination. The feeling you get from one or the other is completely different, and now I'm kind of hooked into that. So-
Lucas Foust:
Well, that's great. So, where do you see the Fork & Spoon and Spork going in the next couple of years? What do you hope to accomplish with your group?
Rick Hilles:
Well, it's going to be a really interesting couple of years because... Well, first of all, we're going to have to rebuild the catering program. I mean, I touched on that before. That program's basically gone dormant with this pandemic. We had projected that we'd have about $25,000 in net profit, not sales, but net profit, off of that business this year. We're going to have almost nothing. And that per net profit goes back into purchasing and sustaining the meals for Fork & Spoon. So we're trying to rebuild that. We're really confident that the response from the community when we launched that business was really positive and really reinforced our idea that if you offer somebody something in trade, in terms of good and services, they'll be happy to buy it from you, especially if they know that the social mission is behind it. And so, we know we can accomplish the same thing with the Spork.
Rick Hilles:
So we're going to get that off the ground. And I know that's going to be great. We still have to continue to raise money outside of that to sustain our operation. But within two years, I'll say 2020, because until they start building something, you're never really sure about when it's going to happen. There's a new facility that's going to get built by the HRDC on Griffin, over by, where the Northwest Energy near Manley and Griffin.
Lucas Foust:
Yes. Yes.
Rick Hilles:
And that's going to be a food resource center that's going to have new facility for the food bank, a new restaurant for the Fork & Spoon. There's going to be administrative and support structure and offices there. Their warming center's going to move there to a 100-bed facility. So we're going to move to a centralized campus to provide services for people, in a lot more efficient fashion and a lot more effective fashion from one location. And so, that's the next big jump for us is getting over there. And that's going to be an endeavor to get that completed, but we're definitely on the way.
Lucas Foust:
What does your customer look like? The person that comes to Fork & Spoon or to Spork or whoever, what does that person usually look like? Is it what we might think?
Rick Hilles:
Well, I mean, some of them are. There's definitely some of the guys who you would recognize if you came in, guys and gals who you might recognize from the freeway off-ramp. But then there's a lot of people who you wouldn't know. You might only recognize them from having seen him in Murdoch's or something. You never really know who you're going to run into there. It's a broad spectrum of people from the community. I always kind of tell people, what's really interesting that I learned about working there is that, it's the same kind of bell curve of people that you would run into at the higher, more secure level of society that you run into at the lower. You've got people who are troublemakers. You got people who are as kind as can be.
Rick Hilles:
You've got most people in the middle. You've got some families. You've got some single people. You've got people who are old, people who are young. The only difference is that they don't have as much money and resources as other people. And then of course, you are going to run into more of this social elements that mental illness and people who are struggling, who just can't make it back into the workforce, can't make it back into the mainstream of society. Those are the folks that are kind of our chronic, I don't want to say users, but our chronic patrons and there isn't any safety net. They need us, okay? But then there's another small percentage, and that's a small percentage, but there's another small percentage of people who are on the cusp. They just lost their job. I had a guy just last month. He had just gotten laid off from, it was one of the mainstream restaurants in town, a chain, and he got laid off of his job there.
Rick Hilles:
Well, he came and I just happened to be talking to him and he mentioned this, and I gave him a dishwashing job, just for a couple of weeks to kind of keep them afloat. Well, that turned into a reference to a job at one of the new hotels that had just opened in town. And then they hired him. And so, just having that little bridge for people here. Someone loses their job or they're in town and they're in a transition. Those are the ones that were really important service to keep people from falling through the cracks, you know?
Rick Hilles:
And then there's the, like I said, the folks who... We just can't... There's no way that some of these guys and gals are going to be able to kind of fend for themselves anymore. I mean, it's too late for them. But we can't abandon them in society. And then there's just the mainstream people who are there for a few weeks and they're in and out. And they use us occasionally as a service to supplement their paychecks or to just... They get short at the end of the month. So it's pretty broad.
Lucas Foust:
Your model's a little different. I mean, you always think of the soup kitchen or whatever, but you use the word dignity. Tell us about how dignity plays a role in your organization and why that's important to you?
Rick Hilles:
Well, I guess in my experience, it's not just the food that sustains people in this case. If you don't give them a place where they can sit down and feel like they're in a normal environment and eat off of a regular plate, with a regular glass and get a napkin... It's a bit of feeling normal that can kind of help a person psychologically to feel like they don't want to give up. They can feel like they still have hope and they still have a chance and they can just see things a little different for those few minutes. When you give someone dignity in an... No one wants to come to the Fork & Spoon and have to look at their kid and say, "Hey, I can't provide for you today."
Rick Hilles:
That hurts. As a dad, that crushes you, you know what I mean, as a parent. As a spouse, for your mate to have to be recognizing that, "Here's where we are right now. This is how bad it's got." That's got to really hurt, you know? So, by giving the best meal we can and normalizing the environment, maybe we take that stigma, that pain away just for a little bit, so that they can have some food and feel good about a few things. And maybe they walk out of there with a little better perspective and energy. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day. They'll get over the top tomorrow. And I hope I never see half the customers again, because I just want them to all be able to stand on their own feet.
Lucas Foust:
You mentioned COVID and some of the challenges that are going on. What types of things are you doing to deal with this epidemic? You mentioned that kind of your traditional kitchens shut down. What are you guys doing?
Rick Hilles:
Well, it's been a bit of a grind for us since the pandemic, and it started, and I use March 14th as that day, because that's when the governor's order was. Believe it or not, we've served 14,000 meals to people since then. And we do about 80 meals a night. Right now, we're doing 112 a night. The numbers go up and down depending on the circumstances, but we just keep cranking out the meals for people. And we do it all on a takeout basis, you know? But-
Lucas Foust:
What do those meals look like? I mean, you have a menu. How does that work out exactly for folks?
Rick Hilles:
Yeah. The menu is published every day. Usually it's a menu that'll run for a week. So, if you miss something on one day, you have a chance another couple of days to get it. But we give the basic stuff, meatloaf, mashed potatoes and beans. Or we'll do a lasagna with broccoli and minestrone soup. Usually we'll have a soup, an entree, a vegetable, a baked good, like a cookie or a bar or something like that, and a piece of fruit for dessert. So it's top to bottom like that every single day.
Lucas Foust:
How many meals a night were you pushing out of the Saffron? Not push out. I mean, I hate to use that term, but, well, how [crosstalk 00:20:35] you making for customers at the Saffron Table? Just give an example of how [inaudible 00:20:39] similar.
Rick Hilles:
I mean, 65 at Saffron was a brisk night. It was a smaller restaurant, and it's a different format. People are more lingering over their meals and that sort of thing. They'll have to produce everything for everybody.
Lucas Foust:
So you're running a kitchen that produces almost twice as many meals as you did at traditional kitchen when you were running the Saffron Table. Absolutely. Okay. Well, here's an important thing. We do this process regularly, once a month, to encourage folks to join us in supporting a particular local charity. We do charity every month. How can folks help your organization? I mean, obviously you can give cash. There's a way to do that. There's a super easy way that I put on my website. But giving cash, how else can folks help this endeavor in this process?
Rick Hilles:
Well, I guess when people know more about what we're doing at Fork & Spoon, and they help other people understand what we're doing, I think that that is kind of the grassroots infrastructure that we need to support this operation, You know? Because that way, when we do need to call out to people and say, "Hey, we can use some extra resources here right now.", people know who we are. They know what we're doing, or their neighbor has been there, or their neighbor has talked positively about it. Come and get a meal one night. And I know it's a hassle right now. It's not as easy for anybody, and you have to wait in the line and go through... But try out the food sometime, when you get a chance, and I think you'll be surprised.
Rick Hilles:
And I also think that you'll be surprised when we open the restaurant, when you can come in and sit down, and even you can volunteer, which is also a big part of our operation is. We provide an opportunity for 10 people a night to volunteer, to help the community on their own time, you know? Those are the ways that we can really use support outside of the monetary side. But the monetary side is important, you know? We have to pay the sewer bill. I have to pay a snow plow company to clear the lot, you know? We've got maintenance issues, just like any other restaurant.
Rick Hilles:
I mean, any small business owner knows the facts, but we spend $11,000 a year. We'll spend about 11 or $12,000 this year on just cleaning and sanitation products. And that's not really much higher than we spent before. It's just the cost of operating a commercial kitchen. So, all these things for us to be able to put food out, there's all these overhead and infrastructure and stuff that's involved. And I think for people to understand that, and to help where they can, either by spreading good words about what we're doing, or putting some money into the donation pool or donating their time when they can, all of that's totally appreciated.
Lucas Foust:
Yeah. I know Thanksgiving's coming up. Can I buy another family Thanksgiving dinner?
Rick Hilles:
Well, we don't have an operation that's set up that way. Everybody can get Thanksgiving dinner who wants it. So, we're going to be open for Thanksgiving. We probably will do over 300 meals on Thanksgiving. So we're starting that project pretty soon, as far as trying to get everything organized. We're going to send out meals to the senior center, the firehouses and the meals on wheels, in addition to having the restaurant open. And the Salvation Army is actually handling all the logistics on that for us this year. We have a program right now, which is called Pie It Forward, and you want to buy your holiday pies or a holiday pie for somebody. You can get online, buy those, and all the profits that come off of those pies, come back into the operation. So that's another good example of us, you get something out of it, we get something out of it, and the person who has some needs get something out of it, and that's a collaboration between us and the Gallatin Valley College.
Lucas Foust:
Great. Is there a culinary school at the Gallatin Valley College? How are they involved?
Rick Hilles:
Yeah, there is, and it's a really great program. They have a 4-year program there and they also have an associate 2-year degree, but they're always looking for opportunities to use their skills and to collaborate. So we've done butchering projects together and they've done the pies for us there. They've also done some product development so that we can get further down the road on developing stews and soups and entrees that we can then fabricate, package and then eventually sell into grocery store as another revenue stream.
Rick Hilles:
So we're always looking for those new revenue streams and where the demand is from the community. Again, we get that. If you walk up to a counter in the grocery store and you're like, "Lasagna from the Fork & Spoon, that helps the people who are hungry in this town, or from another place that doesn't do anything and is purely a profit business," a lot of times you're going to say, "You know what, I'm going to pick that one from the Fork & Spoon, because I want to do something positive. I don't want to come in and donate necessarily. I don't want to come in and work. I just want to help in my own way." And we know that that's what people will do in this town. We've seen them through the catering business.
Lucas Foust:
Well, that's great. Rick, I want to thank you so much for your time today. We are absolutely thrilled. We're committed to your organization, and I really would encourage anybody who's had a chance to take the time to watch this visit that I've had with Rick, to join me in supporting their Fork & Spoon. You're a business of the month and you are. You're a business. I mean, you're not a handout. You're a hand up organization.
Rick Hilles:
That's right. That's what we're trying. That is a big part of what we do at the Fork & Spoon. But, I just want to say this too. If you have a passion for food and nutrition and for homelessness, and you want to help address those things in this town, pick the one that's important to you. And if you want to donate to the food bank, and that's your thing that makes you feel good and a way to contribute, do that, or donate to us, or help us out at the Fork & Spoon, or do something for the warming centers. Lots of opportunities to help people and lots of ways of doing it. Everybody should be able to find a way.
Lucas Foust:
Rick, Happy Holidays. I really appreciate... We'll be in there, both as customers and as contributors, but thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it.
Rick Hilles:
Thanks for having me here. I appreciate it too.
Lucas Foust:
Thanks, Rick.
Rick Hilles:
All right.